It goes without saying that the pandemic was tough on everyone to varying degrees. Some found it uniquely difficult to navigate, like those in the music industry for instance. Tours were scuttled, albums were delayed, and bands who weren’t in quarantine together had to come up with unique ways to not fade from the fickle and short attention spans of fans.
Then there was Phantogram. The fourth record from the electronic rock duo, Ceremony, came out in 2020 just weeks before the lockdown went into effect. Trying to get people to give a shit about new music when they couldn’t find toilet paper was no small task. But Sarah Barthel and Josh Carter kept at it. They toured whenever they could, relentlessly, and approached writing for the next LP at a staggered, more natural pace.
“We didn’t really care so much about time because we didn’t know if the world was going to end or not,” Carter told Vanyaland ahead of tonight’s (February 10) show at Citizens House of Blues. “So, we just made music that we wanted to listen to for usual and took our time.”
Last October’s Memory of a Day was the result, a dozen tracks of dreamy synths, robust beats, and swirling guitar melodies. Lyrically, it’s wistful examinations of days past, the moments both large and small that stick with you forever. Mining the talents of collaborators familiar and fresh, while reaching back to the foundation of artists who collectively influenced them most, Phantogram’s goal was to provide the soundtrack to memories for a new generation.
Over the weekend before taking the stage in Philadelphia, Barthel and Carter checked in with Vanyaland for a 617 Q&A (Six Questions; One Recommendation; Seven Somethings). The pair discussed their partnership, which endures mainly due to an effortless dynamic where they innately understand where the other is coming from. They also talked about when things don’t work and aren’t so breezy, as well as how to avoid the pitfalls of overanalyzing.
:: SIX QUESTIONS
Michael Christopher: Let’s start with the important questions. Sarah, in 2017 at The Governors Ball, you rocked a Van Halen “Tour of the World 1984” t-shirt, and you also have an Instagram archive named “Panama” from when you visited the country where you give multiple shout-outs to the band. Are you a big Van Halen fan?
Sarah Barthel: I do remember that, and I am a huge Van Halen fan, but that shirt was not mine. It was my boyfriend’s — my boyfriend at the time — and unfortunately, he took that shit with him and it’s one of the biggest things that I miss about our relationship.
What about you, Josh? Are you a big fan of the mighty Van Halen?
Josh Carter: I don’t know. I like the songs I’ve heard… “Jump” and stuff. I like David Lee Roth, ‘cause he’s kooky. He’s up, like, jumping around…
Barthel: Hell yeah. He’s jumping everywhere.
Carter: So, if that makes me a fan, then hell yes. But I don’t know their music, really.
Do you have any bands or artists that you think people would be surprised that you listen to?
Carter: I think because I sample music so much, I don’t think people would be surprised if I listen to, like, The Doodlebops or Kidz Bop or something. I mean, I don’t know. I don’t listen to that, so I don’t know. [turns to Sarah] Do you think anybody would be surprised by anything I listen to?
Barthel: No… because you’re all over the map.
Carter: I don’t have guilty pleasures or anything like that. What I like is what I like. If I was a big Madonna fan, I’d tell you so yeah, it’s no surprise. Open book, baby.
***
The two of you have had this lengthy musical partnership. You’ve got such a long friendship too. Do you find yourselves practicing a lot of diplomacy or are you typically on the same page about most things?
Carter: I think typically we’re on the same page, but obviously we have to be diplomatic about things at certain times. We’ll get in little arguments about musical choices within our songwriting process and stuff, and then often we have to prove to one another if it’s a good idea, if that makes any sense. If Sarah has an idea that I don’t really like it, I’ll be like, “Can you just record what you’re thinking and show me?” And then I get a better sense of what she’s thinking, and I’ll be like, “Oh, that’s really cool.” Or vice versa – stuff like that. Or, if we can’t agree on something, we just don’t do it.
Barthel: Yeah. There’s usually some very much-needed marination with our ideas with the other, and they usually stick around if they’re worth sticking around for, and some are just kind of still in the folder. But we open up everything again.
Carter: We have a large cache of ideas that we keep in folders on our computers and stuff, and we’ll dig through. I mean, sometimes, for example, on our new album, “It Wasn’t Meant to Be,” we started from a beat that I made. What… before we even started the band?
Barthel: It was like right in the beginning, yeah.
Carter: So, 15 years later we’re using [beats from before].
Do you find yourself doing that a lot where you just, maybe one of you isn’t getting what the other person is putting out? Do you just shelve it and say, “Let me see if it fits in later on. Maybe I can Jenga it in there,” or something?
Carter: Yeah, I think so. And I think that’s what Sarah meant about marinating on it, just kind of sitting with it and maybe just giving it space? And then going back later and not hyper-analyzing anything, just letting it go and then go back to it. Sometimes, again, you might go back two days later and be like, “Ah, bingo, I got it.” Or two years, or you just decide it’s not the right idea.
Memory of a Day is very much a pandemic-inspired record. You sort of stayed still within the four years between an album cycle, but what was different about the time between this and Ceremony and Three and Ceremony?
Barthel: A lot of things. Our Ceremony album was released literally the week of lockdown, so that was a bit strange. We had maybe a week of press, and then we had our album release party, and then four days later the world shut down. So, we spent a lot of time, I think, after that being a little bit more conscious of our personal health and mental health. Because we’d been a band for so long and just nonstop since day one. Tour, albums, write, tour, tour, tour – just back and forth, back and forth.
So, this album to me, I think I can speak for both of us, was very just more thought out, understanding what we really wanted to do and what we didn’t want to do in those terms. And Ceremony was the last album that we did that was right before that. We did the tour for the album before that. It all bleeded into itself, I think being in a band that’s just nonstop. So I think you can hear it in the songs, I think you can feel it. I can, I’m so proud of this album, the most proud I’ve ever been.
Carter: Me too. Big time.
Barthel: I want to listen to these songs. It’s very more conscious and present, this album – I think.
Carter: I think to add on to what Sarah is saying, we lived our lives. Even though the world was shut down so we couldn’t fully live our lives, maybe how we would want to, we still were able to soak in cooking and dinner, actually watching a movie from start to finish without feeling like we had to be doing something else. Just the normal human things everybody does. And not to say that you can’t do that when you’re in a band, but when you’re touring for 12 years straight and making records that long, you just lose a sense of what life is.
But here’s the other thing about making this record: We took our time in the sense where we might work on it for two weeks straight and then take a whole month off. Not because we wanted to, but it would just kind of work like that. And then we’d work for a whole month and take two days off and then work for three days. It was just very random, but it felt natural, and I think you can hear that. I feel that in the music. And we didn’t really care so much about time because we didn’t know if the world was going to end or not. So, we just made music that we wanted to listen to per usual, and took our time.
***
Do you think you can ever have too much time to work on music, where you’re overanalyzing something maybe a little bit too deeply and you sort of lose track of what the original idea is?
Carter: Absolutely. Yeah. We do that all the time. And I often feel that if we take too much time on a song, then maybe it’s not worth it. Some of our best songs have been written very quickly. “When I’m Small” was the second song we ever wrote, and we play it every night. We play it at every show, and the fans love it, and we wrote that song in half an hour. And I mean, other songs can take a longer time or feel like they’re taking forever, but we tend to just walk away from songs that take too long.
Barthel: We put a brake on it.
Carter: Yeah, we put that in the folder and come back to it.
On the new song “Ashes,” there’s the line where, Sarah, you’re singing, “Am I good enough? Am I good enough, for you?” Is that a nod to “Love You to Death” by Type O Negative?
Barthel: Absolutely. [laughs]
Really?
Barthel: Yeah, absolutely. It’s like one of our favorite songs and we really relate to it. We’re huge fans, definitely. We just wanted the song to feel and just engulfs your being.
Carter: Just hazy, woozy. It has more of a shoegaze vibe to it, but real heavy. It’s a total nod to Type O Negative.
***
There was a lot of heaviness, sadness, and dealing with loss during the making of Ceremony, to the point where it deeply informed how that was made. Did you find yourself approaching Memory of a Day from a happier space, even with all the uncertainty that was going on with the pandemic?
Carter: I think the approach really was nostalgia. Maybe subconsciously it was because we didn’t know if the world was completely going to shit and shutting down. So, each song and all the moments of the album are a snapshot of different parts of your life, a memory – whether they’re good or bad. Like your kiss or funeral, or doing graffiti or skateboarding, or going to the prom.
Barthel: Skinny dipping. Your first concert, first cigarette.
Carter: Driving a car down on the highway. And sort of piecing these together like a collage.
Sarah, following the passing of your sister, Becky, you were doing a lot of work with the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention (AFSP), and Phantogram was honored at the 2018 Lifesavers Gala with the Public Awareness Award. What was it like to be recognized for your work in mental health and suicide awareness?
Barthel: We were very much proud that we were honored with that award, but I think at the end of all of this is that we just want to be able to help in any way we possibly can by getting the word out. And this tour, we’re donating a dollar of every ticket to the ASFP, again, to help spread awareness and allow people to get the help they need. So yeah, I just wanted help.
:: ONE RECOMMENDATION
Carter: There’s a band, it’s more or less my friend, called Sacred Spirits. And I think he should tour, and play. He made an album called Some Stay and it’s just Incredible. I love it. From front to back. He made it, like, 10 years ago, and I’m like, “What the fuck? How could somebody this talented and who writes such good cool songs not be touring it or be bigger or big at all?” So, go listen to Sacred Spirits.
The other thing I had another one though is there’s this writer named Breece D’J Pancake. Weird name, I know. But the short stories of Breece D’J Pancake are very re-readable for me. I just love his work. And speaking of suicide, he took his own life as well at a young age.
Barthel: I recommend ice baths. They really help circulate your blood. Going back into ice bath, into hot baths, it just gets you going. Back and forth.
I don’t want to say you’re not breaking new ground, but someone else recommended that before, and you’re in very good company. It was Gavin Rossdale who told us about ice baths and infrared sauna every night. He brings an ice bath on tour with him, so yeah.
Barthel: Wow.
Carter: Really?
Barthel: You gotta get on that.
Carter: That’s the guy from Bush. Okay. Well, if it helps me look like that guy, I’ll fucking do it.
Barthel: It will.
Carter: He’s a real handsome fella.
Barthel: Yeah, he’s a hunk. We have so much in common, we should probably get married. Hm.
[laughter]
:: SEVEN OF SOMETHING
The two of you make up Phantogram. Give me seven of your favorite duos.
Carter: Abbott and Costello. J Dilla and Madlib.
Barthel: Oh wow, love it.
Carter: Olives and vodka.
Barthel: Wow… yep!
Carter: I like a martini.
So you like your martinis extra dirty?
Carter: Yeah. So dirty. I’m so dirty.
Barthel: Filthy. Trash.
Carter: Trash. I’m trash.
Barthel: Trash martini!
Carter: Give me a trash martini. Oreos and milk, Big Boi and Andre 3000.
Barthel: Oh yeah.
Carter: John Starks and Patrick Ewing. Kermit and Miss Piggy. And… Ben & Jerry’s
Do you have a certain flavor you default to?
Barthel: The Tonight Dough, I think, for me.
Carter: That’s a good one.
PHANTOGRAM + MEIJA :: Monday, February 10 at Citizens House of Blues, 15 Lansdowne St. in Boston, MA :: 7 p.m., all ages, $41 to $61 :: Event info :: Advance Tickets