Over a period of some three-and-a-half decades since sprouting out of the late-‘80s Madchester scene, The Charlatans have seen their sound evolve dazzlingly across genres from the baggy, acid bubblegum on their debut, Some Friendly, to the powerfully subdued Us and Us Only through the reggae and disco inflections on Simpatico. Then there’s the Britpop classic Up to Our Hips and dancefloor bangers of 2001’s Wonderland, making it all the more curious as to why the band would choose to play live in its entirety what some might perceive as a bit of a dark horse in Between 10th and 11th.
The 1992 sophomore effort didn’t exactly light up the charts in The Charlatans’ UK homeland, nor did it produce any smash singles like Some Friendly’s “The Only One I Know” or “Then.” Yet, on a North American co-headlining trek with shoegaze pioneers RIDE, Between 10th and 11th will be the centerpiece of the band’s set. The tour kicks off tonight (January 30) at New York’s Webster Hall, and comes to Boston’s Big Night Live on Thursday (February 2).
When Vanyaland caught up with head Charlatan Tim Burgess to take part in our 617 Q&A series (Six Questions; One Recommendation; Seven Somethings), he explained not only how the popularity of Between 10th and 11th in the United States led to its selection, but that a lot of people point to it as the group’s shoegaze period. The latter is an important factor as touring mates RIDE will be performing their 1990 debut Nowhere in full on this tour, an album recognized as a masterpiece within the genre. Along the way, Burgess talked about how he became a fan of Transcendental Meditation, that pesky “UK” addendum to the band’s name in America, and seven LPs he’d like to see played live.
:: SIX QUESTIONS
Michael Christopher: Tell me about the decision to play Between 10th and 11th in full on this tour.
Tim Burgess: Maybe last April it was suggested that Charlatans and RIDE play together, in America, which was a really interesting proposition. We actually have history with RIDE, in 1993 we played two shows together under the name Daytripper, and we’d both had two albums out at that point. They’ve been doing shows with Going Blank Again and they started doing shows with Nowhere. It was suggested we do either our first album or our second album and we knew that Between 10th and 11th was pretty special to people in America. We hardly play any of the songs from it – “Weirdo” we’ve played it forever – but we’ve hardly played any of the rest of the album and it just seemed like a good idea to play it to America because it seems to go down [there] better than anywhere else.
What has it been like revisiting those songs after such a long time? Were there some where you were like, “Oh, forgot about this one” or certain parts you had to relearn?
Well, they all sound great. They sound different than they did – we haven’t played a lot of them since ’92 – some of the ways that we’re playing them now is a lot more organic. But it sounds fantastic. The songs, when we first started to revisit, say, a song like “Chewing Gum Weekend,” we were like, “How the hell… what were we thinking when we were writing this song?!” It’s like, so strange. But now it’s kind of smooth and everything seems normal, but I just didn’t even understand what we were doing back then. It’s an interesting record. We’ve done Tellin’ Stories and Some Friendly in the UK in their entirety – they’re the only two albums we’ve done. But Between 10th and 11th, to have that in America where people have always though fondly of that record, I think it’s just a good thing to do.
***
Were there any songs after you relearned them where you said, “Wow, we’ve got to start putting this in our regular set?”
Well yeah of course, I mean, they’re all our favorite songs now. [laughs] Now that we’ve learned them. They all sound great; “I Don’t Want to See the Sights,” “Ignition” sounds fantastic, “Page One” is just gorgeous. It sounds like Love to me, “Page One” – the band Love. Just really kinda strange lyrics… I don’t know what the genre is. I think it was kind of considered our shoegazing record, in America, I’m not sure, but to me it sounds like an electronic record where it’s kind of quite dark as well.
I can see how some people would pigeonhole it with the shoegaze movement, which makes the tour with RIDE logical, but the album has quite a bit of electronic elements across it as well.
Yes, it does. I mean, we had Flood produce the album, which is another reason why it’s popular in America. [He] recorded our album between, or just after, Achtung Baby [U2] and Violator [Depeche Mode], so he was really in that frame of mind and we were happy to go along with it. We knew that some elements of Achtung Baby were inspired by the Manchester scene and they were all aware of our band and that really excited us, that a band as big and exciting as U2 would be interested in our music. And then, I guess, some of the darkness of Violator – pretty dark isn’t it? But as a producer he’s one of the best in the world.
You mentioned Tellin’ Stories and Some Friendly, now Between 10th and 11th. Could this be a springboard to do some other records? I’d love to see Us and Us Only in full – that was my college Charlatans album – and then Wonderland, which was so different and brilliant.
I’d love to. I mean, Wonderland would be as difficult to do as Between 10th and 11th, there’d be a lot of relearning with that. I think Us and Us Only would possibly be easier, however, that doesn’t mean we should do that one jus’ ‘cause it’s easy. [laughs] We’re trying to get into the idea of making a new Charlatans record. It’s not happening just yet. But sometimes it’s amazing to be able to look back before you move forward. I know that’s probably a cheesy thing to say, but, you know, I don’t mind cheese.
Charlatans have never been afraid to push the boundaries and change up styles with each album. Like, we talked about the jump from Us and Us Only to Wonderland, which was massive in my opinion. How conscious of a decision is it to incorporate different musical elements or introduce them into the band’s sound on each record?
The jump from Us and Us Only to Wonderland was conscious – but it wasn’t forced. It’s so wildly different, but it was natural. Both eventful records. Us and Us Only when we were making the record with a new keyboard player, it was the first record we made without Rob Collins [who died in a car accident in 1996], so that was kind of a transitional record.
With Wonderland, basically I moved to L.A. after Us and Us Only and hooked up with [producer] Danny Saber. Then the whole band came over, and we didn’t tell the record company, it just kind of happened. It felt like we were on the run, and we recorded on Wonderland Avenue, you know: The Doors and Iggy and John Holmes [laughs] and all these great stories and crazy tales of this one street. I kinda decided I wanted to sing falsetto on a couple of tracks and then almost the whole album became singing in a different voice. It was kind of a fragility to the real heaviness that was going on [in music at the time]. It was just fantastic.
***
What are you most looking forward to going out on the road with RIDE?
They’re all really great guys, so I’m looking forward to hanging out and just… I mean, I’ve seen [drummer] Loz [Colbert] and [singer/guitarist] Andy [Bell] off and on quite a lot really. But I think it will be great to be able to pull up to the venue, hang out, maybe do some interviews together and – I don’t know – maybe even play together. Some impromptu guest appearances. Why not? It’s going to be a tour of a lifetime isn’t it?
I’d be remiss not to ask if you agree that “Vapour Trail” is one of the greatest songs ever recorded?
Yeah, I really love that one. I love the album [Nowhere], I really do, and “Vapour Trail” is incredible – I’m looking forward to seeing that. I love “Polar Bear” as well. I have to say, I’m quite a big fan – a huge fan – of Going Blank Again. Hopefully they’ll do some of that as well. [laughs]
Here in the States, Charlatans get tagged with a sort of disclaimer in your name, “The Charlatans UK.” Suede has to do it with “The London Suede.” Is that frustrating? I mean, for them it’s a jazz singer named Suede who plays clubs preventing their true name usage and for you it’s an American band that had been broken up for decades by the time your first record came out.
Been broken up for decades, but one of the American psychedelic bands and I’m gonna honor that because they’re trailblazers. Dan Hicks [Charlatans U.S. drummer], I’ve since become a fan – I didn’t know at the time. I’ve since become, like, a huge fan. I don’t know; we’ve toured without the “UK,” tried to release a record without the “UK” and some people didn’t know it was actually us, which sounds very strange. I’m ok with it. It doesn’t seem that problematic at the moment. I think London Suede… it’s a bit like English Beat. It probably frustrates them more than the fans, I would imagine. But I like “The London Suede.” And I like “The English Beat” as well. [laughs]
:: ONE RECOMMENDATION
I’m gonna recommend something that I think is huge, and it’s Transcendental Meditation. Although the technique is super easy, the effects are huge, and all you do is kind of get given a mantra, you repeat the mantra and you sit down for 20 minutes and it’s just life-changing.
How long have you been doing it?
Since 2008.
Did you find it hard to get into? Because for me and meditation, I always find it difficult to stay in focus. You said 20 minutes, but after two minutes my mind is wandering all over; I have trouble locking in. Did it take you awhile to get to that point?
Well, actually, no. Because I had all that kind of trepidation beforehand. I gave up drinking and I gave up taking drugs. For a year or two I was just kind of like, wandering around, wondering how to fill this void, because you’re kind of empty. You’ve lived your whole life drinking and doing all this and all of the sudden you’ve got this awakening – a rude awakening – where you just have to learn how to live without drinking.
So, I was in my apartment trying to remain friends with all my friends that still liked to get drunk. Playing records, playing records, playing records and I just sat on the opposite side of the room drinking a Diet Coke. [laughs] And a friend of mine came up to me and she said, “Have you ever tried meditation? Ever thought about Transcendental Meditation?” And I hadn’t. We started talking about the Maharishi, because I was always a huge fan of The Beatles and my favorite period is the Magical Mystery Tour and in any Beatles documentary is the time they go to Bangor [Wales] and then to India and they write The White Album and all that and it’s just mind-blowing. And I’m just like, “Oh yeah, yeah – I’m into that.”
I went to the Isle of Wight and I learned how to meditate – I went within a week of my friend telling me. I was thinking, “How can you do 20 minutes?” That’s just so long! And how can you fit it in twice a day? It takes up so much time. But the 20 minutes that you put into it almost gives you about four hours extra in the day. It’s just mad. It’s like time, I don’t know, it’s like a time shift or something like that. The 20 minutes you put in, you get so much energy and you do so much more in the day. It’s just really helped me to be able to do everything I do.
:: SEVEN OF SOMETHING
You’re doing Between 10th and 11th in full on this tour. RIDE is doing Nowhere. Tell me seven records you’d like to hear an artist do in its entirety live. Can be any artist, any band.
The Cure – The Top
The Smiths – The Queen Is Dead
Simon & Garfunkel – Bookends
The Modern Lovers – The Modern Lovers
Paul McCartney – Ram
“Kate Bush?” Nick Fraser, good friend of Burgess and co-creator of Bands F.C., chimes in from the other room.
“Oh my god, yeah, that’s a good one,” says Burgess.
Kate Bush – The Dreaming
Wu-Tang Clan – Wu-Tang Forever
THE CHARLATANS + RIDE :: Thursday, February 2 at Big Night Live, 110 Causeway St. in Boston, MA :: 7 p.m., all ages, $37.50 :: Event info :: Advance Tickets
***
